Another Anxious, Buddy Sour Horse

A anonymous reader left a new comment and question on a previous post - 'Anxious, Buddy Sour Horse': "I'm aware of all the exercises that can be used to cure a buddy sour horse. However, my 7 yr old gelding has gotten progressively worse and literally throws a fit. He will spin and jump with no warning when his current buddy is too far and has dumped me. Yesterday, he started running backward, got off balance and landed on his side with me still in saddle. Does anyone think he can be cured?"

I wouldn't give up on this horse yet. A 7 year old horse is still pretty young. In his point of view, he is not wrong trying to stay with the herd. The solution is to replace that safeness of the herd with safeness in being with you. I guess you would call it trust. He has to come to the understanding that being with you is as safe or safer as being with the herd, so you have to be his leader. I don't think that's something you achieve easy, nor once you do acheive a measure it, does it stays forever without being constantly re-inforced.

On some horses you may be able to achieve this with much less work than others but it's likely that riding or working once a week is going to get there, unless you willing to take years. It's also as likely that the buddy sour horse has some other issues like not respecting your space, maybe pushy to get at feed, not being able to stand still whether tied, or in hand at the end of a lead rope. Probably doesn't lead well,.....and maybe when in an arena the horse is anticipating at the gate - to name a few. So I think solving or correcting the horse in these other problems, always giving him a fair deal out of it, will help establish your leadership and building that trust.  I can't help but thinking that ground training is one of the most neglected aspects of horse training.  I would not take a horse out on the trail that does what you describe without a lot more ground work. 

So a badly buddy sour horse, I would think that taking him out on the trail with other horses and correcting his buddy sourness may not be starting from the beginning, and can even make it worse. Consider that you are riding with a group and your horse is more concenrned with staying with his buddies rather than listening to your cues. So you fall back aways as you double him, or trot circles then you trot your horse to catch up to the group, the horse is probably pushing against the bit, not rating well and ends up justifing his anxiety being away from the herd since he is working when away form the herd and trotting back to the herd is re-inforcing the need to hurry up and catch for safety.

Maybe part of the solution is working him on correcting the bad habits, in a round pen or an arena, getting him to move his feet when asked, getting him to stand still when asked. When around other horses close to the barn or in an arena I would try working him in close proximity to the herd and giving him a rest at the farthest point from the herd. This is similar to correcting the horse that anticipates at the gate. We've all seen or ridden a horse that wants to slow down, or in worse cases, drifts over to the gate. What do we do? We begin by being ready to keep him from breaking down (slowing his gait) at the gate, making that end of the arena work for him and giving him a rest at the far end of the arena away from the gate. But I think the key is riding this buddy sour horse quite a bit - like the old saying goes "wet saddle blankets make a broke horse".

Lenore's Buddy Sour Horse

I receive the following question from Lenore: ”Help! I am new again to horses and the horse I lease is not willing to go off alone. While the info on buddy sour seems reasonable what I want is for this horse to be willing to ride away from the barn and the other horses without balking. I worked with him to move off by walking him to a distance of several hundred meters but when I then mounted, the horse balked and just backed up over and over. I tried to turn him in a circle which he did over and over again but would not go father afield. Suggestions?”

Lenore, Buddy sour and barn sour are the same problem – a fearful horse. Making the assumption that there are no problems with bit fit such as the bit too tight in the mouth (or too loose), or exposed or un-erupted wolf teeth, one thing you’ll probably have to overcome is your horse having learned bad habits from transient owners over the years. Leased horses may go from one leaser to another, after another. Often the leasers are fairly new riders which can compound the problem. 

Being buddy sour is one of the most aggravating problems a rider can have with their horse. The horse is NOT balking at moving off because he wants to be a problem. He is just fearful from leaving the safety of the herd. So if you approach this problem as trying to help your horse become braver after opposed to trying to straighten out a disciplinary problem,...... and you do this with patience, I think you can have some good success in being able to ride out on your own.

I am way past the time when I would get on a horse and just try and make him do something. This creates much anxiety for the horse as well as other problems – so you end up worse off. Spending some time on the ground establishing what the horse knows and what I’d like for him to do, as well as starting to build that relationship grounded in trust goes along way. I have learned that for me anyway, starting a horse like he is a new horse allows me not only to assess his training but gets me established as his leader. So I would say that some round pen time and training under hand should help you.

When you get in the saddle, I would first accept that this process of creating a brave horse with you as the leader, may take awhile. I would start small. Ride him off from the barn and if he usually starts balking at 200 yards, then stop at 175 yards. Create lessons there and back. Practice disengaging his back end, lateral flexion, side passes, neck reining, change of direction, asking for a head set, etc. – do things like this and allow him to be successful.

You need to keep him busy and under control. If you get to the point where you think you are out of control, turn around and do some more tasks, keeping him busy. This is where some people will disagree with me. Some will think that you can’t let the horse “get away” with misbehavior such wanting to go back to the barn. But he ain’t doing it to misbehave, he’s doing it because he is fearful. To make any headway you have to reduce that fear,…don’t make him fear you more than being away form the barn or his buddies.

This will be a constant process of him getting worried then getting calmer, like an accordion effect. The object being that he will learn to think through things that are problems for him, creating a curious and brave horse.Hope this helps.  Safe Journey Lenore.

Caitlin's Tennessee Walker - Jake

I received an e-mail from Caitlin who had boarded a couple horses and when she returned to pickup her horses she found them in degraded conditions (see picture left and video below). The property owner had also let a Mare die, who had just foaled, and Caitlin rescued the foal. Since then she is having behavior (buddy sour) problems with one of her horses.

Caitlin wrote “I recently came across some of your videos on you tube. They are so helpful and informative. I was particularly interested in the video about buddy sour horses. We recently moved our horses from a barn that was seriously abusing them. If you watch the video it will explain what they were stuck in and not allowed to get out. "



"But now since they have recovered and are at our place, my Tennessee Walker is incredibly buddy sour. I have tried the techniques you suggested. I have used these in the past when a horse has an issue. My walker has turning VERY headstrong. But now a horse that has never bucked and has never been flighty, is almost aggressive to get back to them. He is bucking when I try to correct his behavior or get too far from the others. Do you have any thoughts on this? Any resolutions? I love the horse so much and he was always such a pleasure to ride. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for being there to help people and horses! :)”

Caitlin, Excuse my language, but when I saw the video I was highly pissed off,….nobody should treat a horse or any other animal that way. You are lucky your horse did not founder. I hope everyone in your area knows about these abusers. I have seen many situations like that, mostly malnourishment, you never get used to it, and, you just can’t believe even a half smart human can do that. Good for you to rescue the foal and your horses when you did.

Glad to hear that your horses have recovered. A Tennessee Walker is a great horse. The paint horse in my website header was a Tennessee Walker and QH mix, and a great horse until I lost him. He too went to crow hopping and bucking when he was separated from other horses at first. There may be some other subtle issues with your horse as well. Does he try to walk off as you are mounting and/or before you get your seat?

I would start over,…..always a good place to go too. I would work him in the round pen each and every time before you ride him. Doesn’t have to be much, just to get him focused on you and for him to be seeing you as the leader. Some ground exercises,… lateral and vertical flexion exercises, disengaging his back end (which is essential to take away his "drive train") and other tasks and checks,.......like a pre-ride check.

I think this buddy and barn sour problem is going to be a bigger problem if you only ride him once a week. Then when you ride out either by yourself or with other horses try this:

By yourself. Ride him or even lead him in hand away from the barn and other horses and before he starts to show signs of buddy or barn sourness, turn him around and walk back. Control his gait and walk back. Turn him around and do it again. Maybe each time you get a little more distance away. If you let the horse hurry back, at a fast walk, trot or canter, then he make think you’re buying into his anxiety away from the herd. You may only make micro improvements. Again, harder to improve if you only ride him once a week. If you are feeding him yourself, then you can do this each day and leading him a roper halter may also work.

When you ride with others they have to be on the same sheet as you and considerate of what you are trying to impart to your horse. Anyway, stop your horse and let the group walk feet ahead of you. The group needs to stop before your horse gets too anxious. Then you walk, and I mean walk, not fast walk or trot, to the group. Keep doing this leap frog thing trying to increase the distance between you and group each time.

If you are correcting your horse while he is separated from the herd it is easy to get to the point where you are also increasing his anxiety,..so now he’s away from the herd and getting some pressure. The other day I was riding a horse who was a little buddy sour, so when we were separated from the other horses and started to move back to them, he wanted to trot,…..I would stop him and have him walk off again. I was trying the lightest pressure possible and he got his release when I let him move again, albeit at a walk. Pretty soon he figured it out that I wasn’t going to let him hurry up, and more importantly that he didn't have to hurry up to catch up.

Take a look at his feed too. Make sure he isn't getting too much protein or carbs/sugars....this can make him a bit hot and ansty.

Horse also have a great sense of direction, so if you and the group are cantering back to the barn you may also be giving in to their anxiety about getting back to the herd or barn. Do you trotting and cantering away from the barn, and go back at a walk.

Safe journey,

Postscript: The Colt that Caitlin rescued and her Tennessee Walker, Jake:

Helping the Buddy Sour Horse

I received an e-mail from Janet whose horse gets agitated and near uncontrollable when separated from other horses on the trail. Or in other words is Buddy Sour.

Horses, are of course, prey animals who find safety in a herd. Think about being dropped off in the middle of the desert in pitch darkness with coyotes howling and brush cracking and you can start to feel what a horse feels like separated from the herd...excepting Horses rely on instinct, people tend to rationalize.

A buddy sour horse can be dangerous as the horse may bolt in his anxiety to catch up with the other horses. I think it's best to instill confidence in your horse and trust in you starting small with short distance and short duration separations from the other horses on a trail ride and build from there.

I've been on horses who were comfortable with just me and them being gone all day or night long by ourselves, but sometimes that same horse will get anxious when with a group of horses then separated.

When a horse I'm on gets buddy sour and wants to catch up I think it's important that you get the horse to travel at the pace you want, either a walk or a jog. DOn;t buy into to his anxiety. If you let him take off to catch up then you are teaching him that he has a reason to be scared and needs to catch up to the herd.

I'll keep stopping, backing, then make a horse stand still for a moment before I let him proceed forward. I may have to do this many times on a ride to teach him that he needs to go at the pace I'm asking for.

Sometimes, if needed, I put some energy into tight circles, which makes the horse uncomfortable and therefore looking forward to standing still or walking off at the slow pace I'm looking for. Good luck, Janet, and be careful - don't let your horse get away from you.

Anxious, Buddy Sour Horse

I received this comment on a Buddy Sour Horse who gets anxious when separated on the Trail from other Horses,...”Anonymous has left a new comment on your post Horse Training – Spooky Horses on the Trail,….My horse gets really agitated when the others horses ride off and leave us, even when we are separated by just like 100 yards. He wants to run to catch up. How do I correct this? Alice, Fresno, California.”

Alice, Horses are herd animals and find comfort and protection by being in a herd. It is not unusual for a Horse to be nervous or agitated when separated from other Horses, particularly away from the barn. Some people call this being buddy sour.

What I do to prepare my Horses for travel by themselves is first develop as much trust as I can between me and the Horse. I try to give each Horse the opportunities to become what Craig Cameron calls “a Brave Horse” through exposing them to new things, different obstacles and tasks. Always letting them find release in the right thing. Ultimately earning that Horse's trust.

When out on the trail with a Horse for the first time, it is a good idea to ride with other well broke and solid Horses. Maybe not the first or even the second ride, but certainly by the third ride I’ll separate the new horse from the other Horses at increasing greater distances, then have him walk, not jog or lope, back to the main body. This is important,…if you hold a horse back then let him hurry back to the herd you are teaching him that there is a reason to hurry back,... ...you’re letting that Horse buy into his anxiety of being separated.

I increase this separation by placing the new Horse where he can’t see the main body, like behind a small hill. I’ll reassure him and reward him for standing still and controlling his anxiousness then let him walk back to the main group of Horses. If the Horse is agitated and won’t stand still, I’m not to going to walk him off letting him pull at the bit or hackamore, so I turn in tight circles until he finds release in standing still. I don’t spend a lot time here,.....as soon as he’ll stand still I’ll cue to walk off. If he starts to pull on the bridle and wants to move off, then I circle him again.

I have also used the process of stopping a horse and having him back for a few steps, standing still for a moment, before walking back off if the Horse starts to increase his speed trying to catch up with the main body.

It is a mistake in letting the horse catch up and you are fighting him, pulling on his mouth. This just causes more anxiety and you are not solving the problem or more importantly allowing him to figure it out.

Hope this helps Alice, safe journey to you and your Horse.